Oppositional Defiance Disorder

Posted on Jan 08, 2009 under xn--zqqs84h3is.com | edit

Good afternoon, everyone -

I just found out about ODD; I had no idea there was a name for this condition until I started doing some research into behavioral problems. I'm so glad to have found any kind of info at all!

My 4-year old daughter exhibits so many of the classic symptoms I've found listed online that I'm convinced she has ODD. Like many other parents, we just thought she was a high-strung child and she'd grow out of it. She's had behavior problems throughout her time in preschool but her teachers told us they thought she was "just having a bad day".

So, my question is this: where do I start on getting her evaluated for ODD? Do I take her to her pediatrician? Will they be able to diagnose ODD or do I actually need to take her to a therapist for review? Also, what are the implications of having her diagnosed with ODD? Will she be immediately labeled as a special needs child and put into special needs classes? Our school system here doesn�t deal with special ed kids very well (my mother-in-law works in a special ed class so I hear about it first-hand) and I�m afraid she�d be getting shortchanged educationally if she�s assigned to a special ed class.

Any info anyone wants to share would be very much appreciated. I�d like to get my daughter whatever help she needs; she�s my first-born and I love her dearly.

Thanks much,

Mom to a possibly ODD child
North Carolina

I have a friend with an 8 year old daughter who has ODD. I always feel like I'm being critical or judgemental when we're talking about her and how they are handling the situation. It's difficult for me to understand exactly how bad it really is when they say bad. So far, she's not having any trouble in school and everyone living outside the family thinks that she's a perfectly charming, well-behaved child. Her mother teaches at the school she attends, which seems to be good for both of them, but her father is away much of the time working. There are 3 other children in the household, so she doesn't seem to get much 'alone time' with either parent. I have suggested each of them taking turns and making time to do something special with just her on a regular basis. I'l even babysit! After all, a mother of four can't be expected to deal with that kind of stress day after day and not suffer from it. Does anybody have any other good suggestions? I want to be there to offer support even though I can't fully appreciate the difficulty they deal with every day. Besides, she's such a beautiful and intelligent child!

Thanks for the input that students, parents and teachers have made here. I find I learn a lot from reading real-life instances, rather than just educational publications.

I am a secondary school teacher who has just finished a contract, teaching a lower stream mathematics class. There were about 17 students in the class. They were all about 16 years old. They have one more year of schooling to do.

Each day a different set of problems seemed to arise. I had one student who was very confrontational. Other students had boyfriend-girlfriend issues. My biggest problem was getting students to do their work. I lost my temper a few times. I was really thankful that the school chaplin, an ex mathematics teacher, would often drop in to help me.

My attempts to get administration involved did not succeed. Instead, I have lost my job. Thankfully, I have a new one starting after our holidays. Administration's view seemed to be that if I couldn't handle the situation they would employ someone else who, hopefully, could.

I am trying to educate myself as to how to handle reluctant/oppositional students better. A couple of resources that I have found that look promising are:

http://www.marvinmarshall.com/articles.htm

http://smhp.psych.ucla.edu/qf/p3022_03.htm

I also found helpful the points mentioned by ChrisK on another forum.
http://teachers.net/mentors/discipline/topic1103/4.12.06.07.02.47.html
http://teachers.net/mentors/discipline/topic1103/4.12.06.17.54.39.html

Below are some of his/her comments.

..... (start) ......

"I had a fully diagnosed ODD student last year. His IEP stated
that I needed to avoid giving him any directives. Instead, I was
to request that he complete assignments, and then reward him if he
seemed to respond. He was to be seated next to me, and I was to
ask him if he needed anything at ten minute intervals. I was told
that he should not look up at a screen, overhead, or whiteboard.
Instead, all directions and materials were to be copied for him
and placed in front of him. The objective was to keep him still,
and to avoid any type of aggitation.
......

Still, despite a calm approach, rewards, reassurance, and continual attention, the student maintained an aggressive attitude.
.....

I focused on catching him doing something good. He then received a
positive "Sunshine Report" write-up, and a good news email to his
parents. This was shared with his psychologist by the parents. His
behavior calmed down, and I told him that if he would just focus on
working with me I would meet him halfway. His disruptive behavior
subsided in my room, but the tradeoff was that I had to spend large
amounts of time assisting him both within the room and outside of it. I
continually repeated the statement that "I want you to do well".

.......

It truly became an issue of a "one on one" relationship. It did take a
toll on me. My eye started twitching, and I know that it took
everything I had to find positive things for positive reports. I hope
not to repeat that exact experience.

...... (the end) ......

ChrisK certainly handled a difficult situation a lot better than I could. I have a lot of admiration for teachers who can remain calm when dealing with oppositional students.

If anyone could post links to other forums that they found helpful, I would be most grateful.

My son is a teenager, and was diagnosed with ODD and ADHD years ago. The medication for ADHD helped briefly until he developed Tourette's, which means he can take none of the ADHD meds. His IQ tested high enough that he did not qualify for Special Ed. status, which his teachers required in order to make any accomodations for him. His school career has been a long struggle with teachers who do not know how to handle ODD children, and often unknowingly escalate problems.

The list from the parent in a previous posting has excellent tips. If you are teaching an older student (that parent has a YOUNG child) the issues are identical -
1. Do not allow yourself to be ****************ed into a binary conflict, i.e. yes/no, my way/your way, right/wrong.
2. There is no effective punishment or disincentive when he's "getting his mad on." He will persist in his course no matter what you threaten or do.
3. You cannot sweet-talk him out of it either. Such attempts provide further fuel.
4. The best, BEST thing to do is ignore him until he gets over it, which can be a long time. In the meantime, change subjects/topics/tasks/whatever.
5. Please try to understand that it is not about challenging your authority - it is defective thinking on the part of the child. He really does feel deeply wounded by the gross injustice (in his mind) of what you want. Ignoring his "ODD attacks" allows him to fume and save face simultaneously, and saves you some hair-pulling frustration.

For example, try these kinds of statements, said in a calm, dismissive way, "Okay, we'll come back to that." or "This is the way it works in my class, but you can have some time to think about how you'd like to do it." Give him time to come to his senses, so to speak.

And finally, congratulations to the woman whose step-daughter must have been mis-diagnosed. But do not doubt for a second that this is a REAL "brain" problem which cannot be "cured" by better parenting. Children who really have ODD will do worse under strict discipline treatment, which was so effective for that girl. However, ODD CAN be well-managed and controlled by a person who understands its nature.

This year I have been working one-on-one with a second-grade child. After a complete meltdown which included a bit of violence towards a teacher (and previous brief episodes with students) she was suspended until she was evaluated by a doctor. She was diagnosed as suffering from ODD and ADHD. A terrible combination. She is currently taking medication for the ADHD. Before her diagnosis, she completed only about 5% of the regular classwork (not without an argument first!). She would absolutely refuse to do any work...throw her papers on the floor, pencils flew across the room, etc. Since her evaluation we have shortened her day and she recieves one on one help for 50% of the time...outside the classroom. She sits and completes her assignments with very little hesitation.

I have read in studies that ODD is often accompanied by other learning disabilities which will magnify the behavioral problems of the child. I think it would be beneficial to have children evaluated for disabilities if the the ODD is affecting their classwork to the point where they aren't finishing or attempting to do any work. The child I have been working with is very intelligent but being ODD along with having difficulty sitting and focusing is going to inevitable cause extreme outbursts without proper help. I am not one that promotes medicating our children but in this case this child is a much happier little girl. She is accomplishing her work and building a self-esteem. At one time she called herself 'stupid' on a regular basis...now she refers to herself as ..."I am one smart cookie! I am having fun reading this book! etc."

while i agree that ODD children are miserable in their own skins, i do not agree that ODD is primarily (most of the time) caused by lack of attachment as infants (or otherwise) or mis-treatment.

my son's been an ODD child since birth. he was born demanding, crying so loudly and strongly i'm positive my neighbors thought i was burning him with lit cigarettes.

his father is BPD. and his father's mother is BPD.

i'm positive that my son's difference than the norm is organic in nature.

Another parent of an ODD child (adopted). ODD children are miserable in their skins and if given the opportunity to change their skin, would do so in a heart beat. Control is their battle as most of the time, they have endured some form of maltreatment or lack of attachment when young and therefore feel they need to fend for themselves.

If BPD is Bi Polar Disorder, then yes, I agree that ODD is very often if not always diagnosed either before or after BPD and BPD is a brain chemical imbalance. (Not to say that every ODD child is BPD). ODD can also be diagnosed with ADHD.
Some of the teachers in this posting have made some awesome recommendations for teaching the ODD child. Thanks for what you do! It's sad that many teachers today don't have the creativity or won't use it, to implement strategies to help the children in their classrooms.

I am so glad to see the educational community finally talking about ODD children. My daughter, who is now 26, is ODD and, contrary to all the literature that I have read, has been so from birth and continues to be so, just not as bad. When she was younger we went to several counselors, psycholgists, psychiatrists, even Charter Hospital when the neighbors called in a 5150 because my daughter was that much out of control. She was diagnosed as ODD by several mental health professionals, but no one could tell me how to handle or live with the disease. She is better now (not cured) but still is very angry towards me and I will probably never know why.

Teachers, please take the time to read these ODD postings, they offer you a several helpful coping strategies if you happen to have one of these children in your classroom. Good luck.

Been there, done that - I am an educator also. My daughter same problems...I recently discovered her problem were caused by a severe reaction to Red Dye in foods. You might want to cut out red dye altogether for at least 2 weeks, if you see a change then reintroduce it and see what happens. Good luck. Just be aware that Red Dye is in most medications and in a lot of foods.

My 4 year old son has been recently diagnosed with ODD. He has started seeing a psychologist. He is an extremely intelligent child who basically does not like to be told what to do. At first I figured this was normal and tha the would 'grow out' of it. Being an educator I understand child behavior and discipline techniques, but I was completly unaware ODD existed until a couple of months ago. The problem is he is constantly being kicked out of preschools. He has gone through 3 in the last nine months. The childcare providers basically get fed up with his behaviors. At the last daycare/preschool I enrolled him I explained his condition. He lasted there 3 weeks. As a teacher I want to be informed of a child's background so that I can be better prepared. I feel that he was labeled and not given a fair chance. I guess what really upsets me is that there are some people who call themselves teachers or educators but are unwilling to learn other management techniques that would benefit children. I now know my child is not the only one in this world who has this affliction. I want to know if it is manageable and can children with ODD develop skills that will help tham keep it in check through adulthood on order to become successful functioning members of society?

Hi, I am an elementary autism teacher. I have a 6 year old child that is making my staff and myself crazy! The ODD characteristics are much more dominant than the AU ones. Besides scripting TV and some mild eye-contact issues, AU is minimal. She refuses to work, tantrums, name-calls, threatens and causes general chaos in the classroom. She has a 1 on 1 ABA assistant, but all that really does is provide the extra staff so that my TA's don't have to stay with her. She is extremely intelligent. She can be a very sweet and loving child when she chooses to, but those instances are becoming less and less frequent. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get her under control and keep my staff from puylling their hair out?

I worked with a 12 year old this summer who was ADHD, ODD, and dyslexic. He was going into sixth grade and reading on a first grade level. The program I worked for is called Energy Express. Energy Express have several rules or philosophies in the structure of their program. First, NEVER be negative. You can never use punishment or take anyting such as recess or art time away. And ALWAYS reward positive behavior. As part of the program we had to post a daily schedule and change tasks every 20-25 minutes or so. In addition to all of that, I set up my class so that each child did every task for the day, but they had options on which they would do when. For instance, we had silent reading, art, writing, journals, ect... I would post all of the projects on the board and let them pick what they wanted to do. In an effort to avoid doing art all day, I would tie the art and writing projects together. For example, art would be to paint a picture from the story that they wrote. This would make them write the story first, without them feeling like I was forcing them to. Suprisingly enough, I never even found out that the child was ODD until after the program! I NEVER had defiance issues with him. Also, he was tested at the begining and end of the program and his comprehension rose 2.5 grade levels!

Cassandra,

I have two children, ages 7 and 13, both have been diagnosed with ADD. The youngest has caused a lot of conflict in the home which I used to explain as sibling rivalry, but his behaviors have gotten more and more defiant and argumentative. I was first introduced to ODD by his guidance counselor. When I read about ODD and the "checklist" of behaviors, he not only exhibited all the behaviors, but more often than what was suggested on the list. My educational background is in Psych and Nursing. I struggled through depression in my teens and found healing without traditional psycho-therapy and meds, giving me an understanding and insight as well as coping skills. As the oldest of 7 children, I had a lot of experience with young children (my youngest sibling is 21 yrs younger than me), I had many babysitting assignments on a regular basis, taught Sunday School, Wednesday night bible study, vacation bible school, I was a camp counselor and even a teacher's aide at a local elementary school. I have always felt very confident in my parenting and teaching abilities, but lately I have felt like a failure and have blamed myself for my children's problems. While I still feel that I have a significant influence on my child's development, I don't entirely blame myself for their current challenges, but seek for ways to understand and guide them toward more positive behaviors. My sons are very intelligent, beyond their years in fact, but I believe, as males, they are still emotionally behind in some ways which may add to their frustration in addition to the ADD. I have done a lot of educating myself on ADD in youth and adolescents. In addition, my younger brother was diagnosed as a child and I believe that I was/am ADD as well, but I've learned many coping skills to help me. That is my focus now - teaching my sons how to work around their limitations through understanding what their strengths and weakness are, recognizing their moods and behaviors and giving them the tools to control their lives and behaviors. I don't expect perfection and I want them to learn to accept themselves as they are, without compromising their success in daily life.

In my endeavor to understand more about ODD and to learn parenting skills to deal with it, I appreciate your insight. Of all that I have learned through parenting my children, being a partner with the teachers and staff at my sons' schools, my own continuing education (parenting classes) and research (BOOKS and Doctors!), I agree with the practices you mentioned above and I too have found success with these skills, if even by accident.

My youngest son being the most challenging, would have a fit when I would ask him to do homework or housework (picking up toys, cleaning himself, etc.). When I turn it into a game of time like another teacher from a previous posting mentioned about her summer school experiences, added positive incentives as well as praising with each and every success he had (including correcting mistakes), he did very well.

My older son responds best to your suggestions of giving him choices in planning - giving him the items and letting him decide in what order they get done, then adding positive incentives and reinforcement, he is much more compliant and successful.

As a young person, I distinctly remember my mother telling me to do the dishes. The minute the words came out of her mouth, I resigned that I would not do them. I would do them if she didn't say a word and found myself always trying to do it before she said anything, but the minute she did, the deal was done. Maybe it has something to do with esteem or control, but I felt I wanted to prove that I was responsible and could do a good job all on my own to make her proud of me. I remember this when I deal with my own sons (well, not always, but I try!).

Thanks for your good advice and all of those teachers who work hard, are patient and put up with the challenge so that one child will succeed! Kudos to you! As a parent, you are my every day heroes!!!

Robin

robin_anne_livingston@yahoo.com

Wow! I was reading through all of these posts because I had never heard of ODD. My son has Aspergers Syndrome, so I'm always curious about other disorders too.

These poor teachers! What are they to do?! You would have to be a complete robot to deal with these kinds of children and the rest of your classroom and not blow up. I think even a robot would explode!

I just feel bad for the teachers who have the ADD, the ODD, the AS and all the other abbreviations in their classrooms. Thanks to mainstreaming, it's a wonder any learning gets done at all because the teachers are too busy sweetly begging this child to do his work when he feels like it and then firmly telling this child to stop getting out of his seat and then silently sending this child telepathic messages because they aren't allowed to speak to them until 3 o'clock.

When did the students begin dictating the teachers behavior?

HOLY COW!

Thank you. And I can't help but wonder where the rights of all the other children come into play here. How are we to explain why it is okay for some the shout no, not work and generally cause havoc in the classroom and not everyone. I get life isn't fair and I am truly sorry for these poor children, but I also have to advocate for the "Normal" avarage students who are also affected by this/these behaviors.

First I'd like to say that it is really great that you are all reaching out to each other in the area of ODD. I am a mother of an ODD Child, and let me just give you some advice.
1. You do not ever under any circumstances "blow up" at the child. They will not really remember what happened in 5 minutes anyway, so you are only causing yourself undo stress.
2. Pick your battles. IF the child is not doing exactly what they should be doing, give them a few minutes, then bring them back to task.
3. Don't discipline a child with ODD in front of other children. It will only make them more defiant towards you as an authority figure. Children with ODD see themselves as leaders or above their peers, thus bringing you to a level of hatred. I know that is a strong word to use, but its the feeling that they have.
3. Give the child hugs regularily. I know it seems hard to do right after they completely get under your skin, but remember, they really feel justified in their feelings, it just comes out very strongly.
4. Just give the child a little time to come of the "peak" of his anger. Then ask them if they are ready to rejoin the class or activity. Trying to talk to a child with ODD when they are "peaking" is completely useless and only makes the situation worse and the anger heightened.
5. PICK YOUR BATTLES!! I capitalize this because it is the most important decision you can make to keep the days going smoothly. Trust me on this one, if Johnny is putting stickers on his folder, when he should be doing 2 + 2 let him do the stickers for a minute, then get him on task. Easily done by saying, "johnny you have 1 more minute to use the stickers then it is time to do your 2 + 2" trust me on this one teachers...
6. Let the child feel in control of the day a little bit, not give them control, but let them feel like they have a little contorl and choice. Do this by taking 30 seconds out of the morning routine and saying, "johnny, you did a great job hanging up your jacket this morning, would you like to know what we are going to do today at school?, First we are going to do reading, and after we get done with that we will have a 5 minute break, then we will move on to something else, but be specific. Routine is the most important factor for a child with ODD, and knowing what is coming next.
It's almost as if they fear the unknown events of the day. And little reminders help out also.
7. Take it slow. Do not stop the class because Johnny is doing stickers.

Even if you do these things there are goign to still be outburst. There is just no stopping them from coming. But when they do come, stay calm, do not react, simply allow the child to have the feeling, Peak, calm down, then return to the activity.
Do not make a spectical of the child having the tantrum. It will make them socially unacceptable.

Ladies, feel free to ask me questions from a parents perspective on this disorder, and who better studies this disorder than the parent.

olds99@hotmail.com

Parent of ODD

My stepdaughter was labeled ADHD, ODD and Bi-polar by a team of psychiatrists. She had IEPs in school from 8th gr on due to her "problems." She was a constant discipline problem and was failing 9th gr. My husband and I took her mother to court and we won custody. Against the advice of 2 psychiatrists, 3 psychologists and the school district, we changed her school, changed her friends and took her off of all medications. We were told by all that we didn't "understand her problems" and were setting ourselves up for "major problems." We were also told that she had a "dare devil" personality type and would only be successful in "dangerous" type jobs such as fireman, etc. We ignored everyone. We kept her under "house arrest" until her behavior showed improvement. No tv, no telephone and no going out w/friends until trust was earned. We put her in college prep classes and told her we expected A and B grades, or she would remain on restriction. Guess what? She graduated w/a B average and is now 23 yr old and a banker. This child was on ritalin and other amphetamines for ADHD since 2nd gr. She was on major drugs for bi-polar disorder. Its amazing that once she didn't have the "excuse" of having a problem, she no longer had one. She hasn't been on any meds for 7 years and has a very detail oriented job. As a child, her mother gave her no responsibility and no consequences. Her mother always looked for an "excuse" for her daughter's horrible behavior and took her to every psychiatrist in town. Interestingly enough, all of their evaluations proved her mother correct. I know its not always the case, but many children live up to their expectations. Once the bar was raised, she rose to the occasion.

Does this student have an IEP? Maybe he should get an eval.

I want to teach a lesson on telling time. Do you have any printable worksheets I could use?

The webpage would not open. It said it was incorrect.

The best advice I ever got about working with children with Emotional disorders is not to take their disruptive comments and actions personally. Look at the disruptions in a scientific way, there is a reason for the behavior.

Regardless of the disability of a child the said disability is not an excuse for bad behavior. A set behavior plan including classroom rules is important. The children with emotional defiant behavior need to be held to the the rules even more than other children. Children should be given choices, this makes them feel in charge. The choices they are given however are made by the teacher. So regarless of what the child picks the teacher is still in control.

Positve reinforcement is also key. Bad behaviors might lead to punishment, but good behaviors should definetly be rewarded.

Part of a behavior plan I saw work effectively involved breaking the day up into half hour (or hour) segments. The class rules were numbered, with corrisponding rules on a record paper If the students followed all the rules (including doing his/her work and appropriate behavior) for that time period they were rewarded by a star being put on a record paper. If they didn't follow the rules the numbers of the rules they didn't followed were circled and no star given. If the children got a certain amount of stars for that day (or half day) they were given a chance to pick a small toy prize from the "class store".

One thing I noticed is that many times adults will say "please?" or "ok?" after giving a direction to a child. With out realizing it they just changed the direction from You need to do... To would you do...? Often when directions are asked and not stated the children will answer the question with "No!".

If need be a behavior plan can be different for one child and not the rest... including rewards that others may not get. Many times children will notice and say "That's not fair". This is a good learning oppurtunity to teach them: What is fair is not always equal, and what is equal is not always fair.

One final note is that it's important to tell children that you care about them even when your in the middle of dulling out punishment.

Good Luck!

Wow! I was reading through all of these posts because I had never heard of ODD. My son has Aspergers Syndrome, so I'm always curious about other disorders too.

These poor teachers! What are they to do?! You would have to be a complete robot to deal with these kinds of children and the rest of your classroom and not blow up. I think even a robot would explode!

I just feel bad for the teachers who have the ADD, the ODD, the AS and all the other abbreviations in their classrooms. Thanks to mainstreaming, it's a wonder any learning gets done at all because the teachers are too busy sweetly begging this child to do his work when he feels like it and then firmly telling this child to stop getting out of his seat and then silently sending this child telepathic messages because they aren't allowed to speak to them until 3 o'clock.

When did the students begin dictating the teachers behavior?

HOLY COW!

Well, since my son has recently been dx with ODD after 2.5 years of seeing counselors -- ( first it is a relief to finally be able to have a starting point to helping my child ) I want to defend children with ODD -- not all are disruptive in class or a burden to their teachers. My son happens to be above reproach behavior wise in school during the day. He is also extremely intelligent, at 10 y.o. scoring in the high 80's and high 90's in nation wide scholastic testing. He is also in the gifted and talented classes for science, reading and soon to be math. Alot of children misbehave in school due to lack of proper instilling of respect and parental interaction. Let's not blame all of this on children with ODD or other disorders that are actual chemical imbalances and not just "bad behavior."

My son is 6 and has just been diagnosed with ODD. I am a special educator and always thought i knew how to handle "difficult" children...but no one prepared me for this. I really value all the info parents and teachers have posted on this site. We have always provided our son with structure, love and discipline and cannot believe he is making his life so miserable (telling teachers no, being so determined to get what he wants that he will pull hair, kick anyone in his way). No amount of positive or negative reinforcement seems to help much. He is also extremely bright and manipulative. He is not that bad really at home but at school they are at a loss as to what to do because of his violent anger (half the time he is perfect angel). They do not have the staff to "take him to another room" until he calms down. They suspend him and call me from work to come get him. I am afraid of losing my job. Are they under any obligation to keep him at that school? He has to go to school somewhere! What are my options for finding a place that can handle him?

I am a guidance counselor in a K-8 building and have a student in school who is in "young 5's" and is exhibiting many ODD characteristics. Her teacher is struggling, and I was hoping I could find some good, hands-on strategies the teacher can use to manage the behaviors in class.

Another parent of an ODD child (adopted). ODD children are miserable in their skins and if given the opportunity to change their skin, would do so in a heart beat. Control is their battle as most of the time, they have endured some form of maltreatment or lack of attachment when young and therefore feel they need to fend for themselves.
Always use choices - preferably those that will distract them from the issue. Would you like to do page 4 of your math with a pencil or with a pen? Always give the child the opportunity to control something, in this case the writing instrument.
Altho ODD children are typically intelligent and even on grade level, ODD is a mental illness that qualifies for an IEP. That's a federal protection and as long as the child is not able to calmly work at the same level as the other students, it IS impeding his schoolwork. My son receives a modification in his assignments (fewer) as he is on grade level, and no need to test him 100 times. He receives lighter assignments so he is doing something, but is not being overloaded. There is only a requirement of one grade per week in school, therefore, pick the assignment to grade, let the child know that is the assignment he must do each week, and lighten your load to allow this child to not suffer further social repercussions from blow-ups and being yanked out of the classroom due to a power struggle. At times I wonder who wants the power more, the teacher or the child?
Teaching a child with special needs is a privilege, not a chore. Arm yourself with the countless bits of info available on the internet and other resources such as "Why Johnny Doesn't Behave" by Dr. Barbara Bateman and Dr. Annemieke Golly. Great book for both the IEP and non-IEP child. I am happy to be contacted awesome4@email.uophx.edu

My friend is 21 and he was diagnosed ODD, MPD and MD, ODD being the main one because the others stem from that (at the age of 8). His mother says she did everything she could for him, but I do not believe that because they fight all the time and I see the way that she treats him. She is never calm with him and she is always telling him what a loser and a screw up he is. She never points out his good qualities and she always makes him feel bad and she yells at him around her husband and the other kids in the house, even in front of his 15 month old daughter. She has been doing this for a number of years and she blames everything on him, I mean everything. If he is not home and something happens and he gets home after, she will find a way to place blame on him. I don't know what to do b/c he is making a mess of his life and I want it to stop...

skellybean3383@yahoo.com

The students with ODD are a difficult group to work with. They are also the what I find the most interesting. When they are blowing up it is best practice to allow them to cool down. Do not aggrivate the situation by trying to battle them and show them that you are the teacher and in charge. They do not care. You will not win. Be wise and have a mangement program for the behaviors that the student displays and effective ways in which to manage them. They should play an active role in choosing behaviors to work on, and in helping to establish what the negative and positive consequences of the behaviors will be. If you establish these guidlines together you will have more compliance on behalf of the student. The key is to have compliance. In regard to finish academic assignments. I suggest that you make a daily agenda of work to complete and allow the student to choose which assignment he would like to start with. Do not use language that displays your authority over the student. Try using phrases like I hope you will, or It would be really nice to see. I gaurantee you will see a difference in his involvement academically. hope this helps.

I posted the original message on this topic and I can't believe it is still going strong! I have found something that helps me deal with any type of child with any type of problem. It is called Conscious Discipline. The basis of this type of discipline in a nutshell is to develop a relationship with students, create a community setting in the classroom, and embrace conflict and use it as a learning experience rather than a distraction.

There is so much more to conscious discipline...our school has had several visits from a trainer, and i just started reading the book. It is just a whole new way of thinking...and it has almost eliminated stress on my part and really helped me enjoy my job a lot more.

I seriously believe that ALL teachers could benefit from reading this book or encouraging your principal/administration to get a speaker to your district. This is the website. If you would like to purchase the book, click on "products" on the left hand side and then "books". It is called Conscious Discipline.

www.beckybailey.com

Check it out and let me know what you think. If you have implemented Conscious Discipline into your classroom let us know what you do...I am just a newbie to it and it has already worked wonders for me!

~Beth

I have a friend who teaches severe and profoundly disabled. She has 6 kids and 5 aides. 5 of the kids can't speak, are in wheelchairs, have no motor control or very little, wear diapers and 3 are on feeding tubes.

The 6th child is severely disturbed and is a hitter and a biter and is classified as highly dangerous to himself and others. She comes home every day with bruises and bite marks from this child.

I firmly believe every child deserves an education to the fullest extent of their ability, but how do you educate a child who is unable to respond in any way? These kids aren't able to respond to even the simplest command. She said there are 2 who don't respond even to noise or lights. They just sit slumped in their chair. Any of you teachers who teach under those conditions deserve to be nominated for sainthood.

BPD is Borderline Personality Disorder, MD is Bipolar Disorder (Manic Depression)

If BPD is Bi Polar Disorder, then yes, I agree that ODD is very often if not always diagnosed either before or after BPD and BPD is a brain chemical imbalance. (Not to say that every ODD child is BPD). ODD can also be diagnosed with ADHD.
Some of the teachers in this posting have made some awesome recommendations for teaching the ODD child. Thanks for what you do! It's sad that many teachers today don't have the creativity or won't use it, to implement strategies to help the children in their classrooms.

Hey, I'm 15 now and I have ODD, borderline ADHD, GAD and a bunchload of physical issues and might I suggest that even when you ask them to do something give them a bit of time. I have a tendancy to say no whenever someone asks me to do something but a few minutes later I will do it. You don't always have to ask just DON'T and I repeat DON'T tell them "You have to do the work now" or "Everyone else is" my teachers even when I was younger got no end of aggravation from me. May I add that comparing them to others or showing them someone elses work will make no difference what so ever. Be polite when you ask, say would you please, I would appreciate it but DON'T say it mean or sarcasticly even young children can tell when you aren't being nice even when your words are polite.

Are there still kids in the world that have NOT yet been diagnosed with ODD or ADHD?

I am currently going through court to see my daughter. I have been unable to see her for almost 7 years. My daughter's mother was physically abusive and I stopped seeing her after 1 1/2 months of knowing her. She had physically assaulted me causing me to leave her. She immediately went back to her previous boyfriend. I had found out she had a baby and claimed it was mine, but would not allow me to see her. I made attempts by phone, but when I did, she phoned the police on me and stated I was harrassing her and threatening her. I stopped phoning. I was afraid she would put me in jail. I left them alone, and went on with my life. Years later (2005) my ex showed up at my work with an order for court and child support. She wants 6 years of back support, 400.00 dollars support, and a restraining order against me. I had a DNA test done which came back that I was the father. I was happy, I knew that this would allow me to see my daughter. I am married with 2 children of my own. As we proceeded through court, my ex is still denying me the right to see my daughter. She made a statement that I said I would kidnap the child, and or sell the child to the court. This statement was false and she just tried to discredit me. Now when the court is about to settle, she is stating that my daughter has Opositional Defiance Disorder and she says that by introducing me into her life that it will really mess her up. I have a happy, stable, loving home. My ex has moved from boyfriend to boyfriend, each time telling the kid this is your father. Domestic violence has been a big issue in that home. Drug and alcohol abuse. Physical and mental abuse. I am wondering if my daughter introduced into my life, would it be beneficial for her for stability. I believe that the problems my child has is due to a horrible family life. Instability. Violence. Any advice?

My 4 year old son has been recently diagnosed with ODD. He has started seeing a psychologist. He is an extremely intelligent child who basically does not like to be told what to do. At first I figured this was normal and tha the would 'grow out' of it. Being an educator I understand child behavior and discipline techniques, but I was completly unaware ODD existed until a couple of months ago. The problem is he is constantly being kicked out of preschools. He has gone through 3 in the last nine months. The childcare providers basically get fed up with his behaviors. At the last daycare/preschool I enrolled him I explained his condition. He lasted there 3 weeks. As a teacher I want to be informed of a child's background so that I can be better prepared. I feel that he was labeled and not given a fair chance. I guess what really upsets me is that there are some people who call themselves teachers or educators but are unwilling to learn other management techniques that would benefit children. I now know my child is not the only one in this world who has this affliction. I want to know if it is manageable and can children with ODD develop skills that will help tham keep it in check through adulthood on order to become successful functioning members of society?

I have been teaching for four years in primary and intermediate and have dealt with students with ODD and ADHD. I have found patience also to be the key. Giving them option of now or later but following through has worked for me. I think that behavior plans that focus on specific behaviors are important. I went into a class mid year last year and had my ODD child pound a potato size rock into his forehead when I chose not to acknowledge his "shout outs" and focused on my core group. Once I built a relationship with this child it helped. I had to change myself as a teacher to accomodate this student. Instead of ignoring the "shout outs" I would assure this student that I would help him, address him, or talk to him after I was done teaching the lesson. At first he didn't respond to this. After time of me saying that I would check in on later and following through he began to trust that his needs would be met. I also made a behavior plan booklet. It was brocken into five time periods throughout the day. It had four sections to each time period. The four sections were following directions, raising his hand, getting his work completed, and talking positively and respectfully. He would get a check mark for any of the four in each time period when we conferenced. We ranged from 8 to 18 check marks at the end for him to earn a sticker. After three sticker to five stickers later in the plan he would get a reward. The conferencing with him and talking about my observations and his he was able to think about expected expectations. This childs behavior improved significantly. When he was oppositional I would state, "Are you going to earn your check mark for following directions?" He would usually calm down and choose to follow directions. The key is to have a plan that they can be successful at. Many days he would get his work done and follow directions but would not earn the others early on in the day. He would see that if the other areas were not worked on he would not earn his sticker. This behavior plan also went home daily. If he reached his goal for that day there would be positive reinforcement at home. This plan was developed by the school phsychologist, myself, and the student. It is important to include the student in the development of the process for buy in purposes. I still see this child regularly on the playground and he still follows my directions while he is defiant with other yard duties. That relationship with that child will carry you through your difficulties with the student.

My son was diagnosed at the age of 11 with ODD. He would attend school everyday without a problem. He just wouldn't do the work in class. I would sit for hours doing homework with him. He would never turn it in. During the course of 3 years of counseling, we discovered he had a misshap in school with a 5th grade teacher. She made him feel like he was not as equal as the rest of the class. Causing him to feel that he was worthless. She would tear his work up in front of the class and tell him he could do better, therefore, he made up his mind that "why do it, it's not good enought anyway". Although it took us almost 2 years to find out that that was the root of the problem. This caused him to disrespect any and all authority figure. I continued the couseling and reasuring him he was just as good as the rest. I spent many of nights crying and frustated with him but never stoped telling we loved him. He is now 19 years old and is doing quite well. During the years of growing up, he know knows that he can do anything he sets his mind to with or without mistakes. I do believe that in time, the older they get, the easier it gets for them. They mature mentally and have better judgment. To the parents and teachers with an ODD child, patience is what it takes. It's hard to controll, but believe me, I works. Give them time and space, it works. I also found out that working alone 'not in groups' helps too. They don't have anyone to show-off too.

thanks for listening,

Betty

I was a child with ODD, and now I am a college student with it. I'm starting a research paper on the subject, and I'd appreciate any feedback from teachers or parents with ODD students/children. I'm focusing briefly on what it is, how it can stem from one disease or another (mine stemmed from ADHD), and causes and treatments. I'm then planning to lead into how it can be overcame without medicine (as I did).

My e-mail is SekiTimewalker@gmail.com. I'd love to hear from anyone who can help.

I am a first year student who would love to know where I can get some information regarding Oppositional Defiance Disorder (or any of the related disorders eg. Attention Deficit Disorder). Does anyone know any good websites?

I find it very difficult to believe that the states some of you work in offer NO protection for children with serious behavioral and emotional issues. It seems a violation of IDEA. IDEA's mantra is to: ensure that all children with disabilities have access to a Free Appropriate Public Education, to protect the rights of said child, to assist local agencies mete out the provision of educational needs, and to enure the effectiveness of the efforts to educate students with disabilities. IDEA does have a category for "serious emotional disturbances." IDEA also has a category called Other Health Impaired, which can be utilized for those who exhibit "limited strength, vitality, or alertness, including a heightened alertness to environmental stimuli, that results in limited alertness with respect to the educational environment." Some of the specific conditions noted include: asthma, ADD, ADHD, diabetes, epilepsy, heart conditions, hemophilia, lead poisoning, leukemia, nephritis, rheumatic fever, and sickle cell. Don't forget the big AND...this condition must adversely affect the child's educational performance. A good school psychologist can help you determine if a child's perceived disability(ies) rise to the level defined by IDEA. Also, if criteria for IDEA cannot be met, what about utilizing the protections offered under Section 504? 504's basis for eligibility is predicated on the existance of an identified disability that substantially limits a major life activity. Learning is a major life activity. The 504 would allow a student to have accommodations.

With respect to managing behaviors...remember that you must differentiate between discipline issues and behavior problems. Disciplining behavior problems creates more problems. A firm stance and strictly adhering to classroom expectations will usually quell discipline problems. Be sure that you have a disciplined classroom environment, complete with explicitly modeled and well-defined expectations. Do that from day one. Students thrive when they have procedures to follow, know what is expected of them, and know the correct path to take that meets those expectations. Generally, a lack of management creates a lack of discipline.

On to true behavior issues...Know the difference between punishment and consequences. A consequence is a natural, logical result of a behavior. For example, if a child breaks a classmate's possession, a natural consequence would be for that child to replace the broken object. In that way, the offending child learns to take personal responsibility for his actions. Understand that you need parents to be on board with this. After a consequence has been assigned, decide whether or not a punishment should also be attached. Consequences teach personal responsibility; punishments do not. Do not opt for a punishment if you cannot clearly state its purpose. If the consequence responds to the nature of the infraction and allows the perpetrator to grow (ie-learn from his mistakes/own his actions) than do not punish. It serves no purpose. Another important point is to attempt to understand the cause of the misbehavior. Figure out which behaviors you can change and which you cannot. Also, know that you cannot change the underlying cause of a behavior. Instead, when you act from an enlightened place (understanding cause) you can better address how to help the child. This is where you design strategies to compensate for the problems. Know that your compensatroy strategies must be chronic, as the problem is chronic. Know that you are not curing the problems; you are compensating for them. (Think about how eyeglasses compensate for poor eye-sight. They do not cure poor vision and in order to positively affect the vision, they must be worn daily.)

Check into having a 504 plan implemented for this student. Also, children with ODD need special and tender loving care. A student will perform for someone with whom he has a "good" relationship. Work on developing this kind of relationship.

I am a new Principal of an elementary school. There is a child at this school who has been diagnosed with ODD. All of the teachers are afraid that they will be assigned to be his teacher. As their Principal, it is my job to educate these teachers on how to cope, and how to teach the other students to tolerate this child. Does anyone have any advice as to how to teach his peers to relate to this student so that he can gain some friendships in order to gain self esteem and worth?

Thanks in advance!

Cathy

15 years ago I had a student in fourth grade diagnosed with ODD. He was very intelligent and wanted to do the work but couldn't. If we had creative writing he would sit for 30 minutes and maybe write one sentence.Writing and transferring from the board was an incredible frustration. I would put a copy on his desk or not require him to copy it. All incomplete work was sent home and he spent hours working with his mom and usually brought it back incomplete. I did everything I could to relieve mental roadblocks for him, though at the time I thought it was Poppy ****************. He could initial his papers. He could either write his paper on the computer or speak it into a tape recorder. I allowed him to have a secretary and adjusted assignments, starting with very few problems and gradually increasing the number. I used positive reinforcement charts and set up a reward program with his mother. I was amazed at the change that came about. He turned into an incredibly creative and brilliant student. It completely removed the frustration he felt and he started to feel good about himself because his tasks were do-able and he was succeding.He even begin to go beyond what I asked of him and was so proud of himself. His mom told me at the end of the year that it was his best year ever. Don't make it a battle but think how can I remove an obstacle that seems unsurmountable to this child and help him succeed.Ask yourself is my objective to have it done my way or is it for this child to experience education and the expression of himself in the most positive way possible.

I will be getting a new student this year who seems to have some qualities associated with this disorder, as well as depression. I had him for a short time during summer school and am looking for some ideas to welcome him back and start off on a positive note. He was kicked out of summer school by the principal because he would not do any of his work in school. It takes him about 10 minutes to get his name down on paper most days. It is NOT a matter of ability..i know he has it...It is just like a bad case of being stubborn or lazy (or both). Any ideas on how to deal with this??

Thanks in advance.

~Beth
Second grade teacher

I have a student that has a hard time getting his work complete too. He also takes FOREVER to just put his name on his paper. I started playing a game with the class and I either count by 5's or count down from 20 and check to make sure everyone has their name on their paper. He loves this game and works very fast to get his name on his paper. It's sloppy, but that's OK.

Then I made it into a game to get him to complete his work faster. I give him a sand egg timer to place on his desk. He needs to see how much he can get done before the time runs out. It's become such a big hit that other students beg to use the timer. Now I need to invest in more timers so the other students won't feel left out!

Just remember that handling his behavior in a positive way will get more results than threatening no recess or to do the rest for homework. Praise him when he does complete the work.

You could also give him a student contract. Take him aside and work on one issue at a time with these contracts. You could start with if you can get your name on your paper as quickly as everyone else all week, you can have an incentive. Then once that habit has been broken, start on completing his work quicker.

Hope this helps!

You could try to make a visual schedule for them to follow. I have found that part of the difficulty is that they feel out of control, but if they can see what their day looks like, it is easier for them. If they are able, they could establish the schedule. You could provide what you need them to do and have them put them in order. As long as it gets done, it shouldn't matter what order it gets done in.

School has started for us and I kept remembering what his teacher from his last school said. She said "he needs a lot of love". Personally, I have a hard time showing love toward a student who constantly pushes my buttons and doesn't do his work, but i am trying harder than ever. I know it will be a miserable year for both of us if i let myself get stressed out. Anyway I let him get to me when he wasn't doing his work the other day and I blew up and told him he had to get his work done. I walked away from him and two minutes later i sent him to the hall calmly. I apologized and said that i shouldn't have done that. We made a little pact that I wouldn't do that again and that he would try a lot harder. Hopefully it will work out...he was much better for the rest of the day. I am giving him TONS of positive attention in hopes that he won't look for negative attention. His negative behaviors have not been as bad so far, and he seems to be trying to please me more than "push my buttons".

this student doesn't have an IEP. His academics are no problem, and we don't have anything like BD special ed classes. The only students who qualify for an IEP in this state are students with REALLY low IQs or students who are WAY under grade level...more than one full grade behind. Students with speech problems also qualify, of course.

Thanks for the website..I am looking at that right now. He fits into so many of the categories that I'm trying to narrow it down!

#If you have any other info about this subject , Please add it free.#

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Oppositional Defiance Disorder

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