Online awards engine-better to phone Aeroplan?
Posted on Jan 08, 2009 under xn--zqqs84h3is.com | editForgive a person slumming in from the Air NZ forum. My dad lives in Canada, and is an Aeroplan member. He's planning a visit to NZ, and he's scraped together enough points to get a business class award ticket YYZ/HNL (I'll get him the rest of the way to NZ from there).
My question - he's almost 80, hard of hearing, and hates talking to reservations agents on the phone (he has a hard time following the conversation). He doesn't want to phone Aeroplan himself.
So, being a good son, I thought the easiest thing would be for me to sort out his award booking using the Aeroplan web engine. I got Dad signed up and have organised his PIN.
I tried to book his trip today. Absolutely none of the dates I select return any available flights. I've given a range of dates over about a week at either end.
I know award travel is restricted, esp. in January to Hawaii. However, part of me wonders if I haven't just got the technology wrong.
Do forum members have good/bad experiences using the web site to book your award travel? Am I better to bite the bullet and just ring up Aeroplan?
Thanks in advance for any tips.
NZFlyer
Dorian
Thanks again...
Hi all,
just thought I'd jump in with my recent AC/NZ award booking experience...
am sending my parents on a YVR>NZ holiday (a 50th anniversary bonus prize for all those years of nuturing while resisting the tempation to cut and run!)
Booked in October via SE/AP agent, and we struggled to find AC availability for YVR/HNL for February. Thought I'd be able to avoid the post-Xmas crowds, but was still a real challenge trying to get the dates!
Ended up booking via LAX, and then NZ (1st class). 130K per person.
Actually, I'd really appreciate an update on the AirNZ financials these days; especially since they sandbagged Ansett (according to vociferous Oz folks...) they've been somewhat suspect. Is the prognosis is hopeful? No takeovers looming? ...or SwissAir surprises?
...do tell! [ http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif]
The answer to your question re: Stability of NZ, is a "Don't worry about it." As a Canuck who follows the news of the Pacific closely, NZ has just return to public ownership after more than 10 years in the private sector. This means NZ will not go bankrupt unless the Govn't of NZ goes down too. That simply cannot happen because NZ is a stable sovereign economy, which means great borrowing power.
According to my observation, any takeover within the triangle of Singapore, Australia and New Zealand is very unlikely at this time. SIN is also suffering economic turbulence caused by global economic downturn and the post 911 syndroms. Qantas's wish to buy NZ is now impossible, which means NZ will not leave Star-Alliance, which was a distant possibility few months ago. By the way, whatever the Aussies claim on how bad the management of NZ is or even 'NZ raped Ansett', take it as a grain of salt. Investigations by Australian authority has started and so far, everything is inconclusive. In my opinion, Aussies have way overreacted re: Ansett fiasco. Canberra is certainly partially responsible for the fate of Ansett though most Aussies choose to blame NZ. They even circled NZ Prime Minister in Melbourne when she passed by. Any way, all in all, I don't anticipate any noticible changes in the region except Australia may be going through a transition period similar to that of CP and AC in the next 2 years. In my opinion, this period will be far from pain less in Australia but there are sufficient competition on the main domestic routes to prevent an overwhelming monopoly. Qantas is not a very ethical company in my opinion and with Australian govn't unwilligness to further restrict Qantas (fearing it might hurt QF's already poor financial state) as they just got re-elected for another term (another reason to do nothing about it), it might lead to certain stability for the next 1~2 years. Though they haven't solved any problems that have been there for years, they have simply delayed them. These will definitely resurface sometimes and it could be quite chaotic. But I don't know when that will happen, but I won't be surprised if Qantas is the next to return to Public ownership if the global economic context continues to deteriorate.
[This message has been edited by Guava (edited 11-25-2001).]
AA offers them on a number of routes, sometimes on a seasonal basis. For example, MSY-BWI is offered (with a connection in DFW,) apparently to compete with WN's non-stop. Not only that, it's offered on more than just the "full Y fare."
Use Travelocity "fare listing" and check MSY-BWI on AA only. (For a compact list, select one-way flight -- that'll eliminate most of the discount fares.) You'll see two upgradeable fares, which are noticeable by the "UP" in the fare code.
There's Y26UP which is exactly the same fare as the regular full fare Y26D. But there's also a Y26UP3 requring a 3 day advance purchase, but otherwise the same fare as the BAP3D econo "discounted" B fare.
Both are described in the rules as "First Class Restricted Normal Fare" booked in "A" class as noted earlier. While there are some theoretical restrictions, in practical use they are completely unrestriced -- changeable, refundable, open returns, etc, are all allowed. Best thing on AA though, is that for miles and points these fares are treated identically to true paid first class tickets -- i.e. 150% miles, points, q-miles and q-points.
Ahhh... the good ol' days.
[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited 11-26-2001).]
Do you have enough points to claim a YYZ-AKL J instead? It's better than seperating it into AC & NZ awards and end up using more points. Once *A announces the alliance wide award chart (Feb 1), there might be something in there that could work to your advantage.
I just think it's a waste to use 40K for YYZ-LAX J when YYZ-HNL J costs only 60K.
To quote my stoic Dad "its just a place to stretch my legs anyways" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Just to close the loop on this saga, have got Dad to/from LAX on the dates we wanted. On the outbound, gave him the choice of W direct or D via YVR, he opted for W (no D available on direct on the date we wanted).
As a side observation - the Aeroplan web award booking facility is great. For Air NZ, I have to do everything over the phone.
No problem at all revising the connecting Air NZ legs - have him in First to/from Auckland. Have never flown First myself, so I'm asking him for a trip report!
Cheers,
NZFlyer
For your segments between YYZ-LAX, if one of your segments (e.g. return flight) is confirmed in D, your dad may stand by for Business Class at the gate for the outbound as well. Depending on the loads, I say his chance of clearing for an upgrade is excellent. He will have the highest priority when booked with AC miles over elite status members.
I couldn't find anything on them that shows they will upgrade anyone that buys full fare Y.
Here's more info:
http://www.nwa.com/services/bustrav/conne.shtml
http://www.usairways.com/promotions/specialrates/index.htm#first
That was very badly worded on my part. AC wouldn't price YYZ-LAX up-front when I posted, but Travelocity quoted $3500 for C YYZ-LAX.
Seems like these fares are popping up more often now. You pay full fare Y and AC will automatically upgrade you to J class. (Fare basis CY1UP) Really no reason to get full fare J anymore on those routes unless C class inventory is non-existance.
[This message has been edited by Empress (edited 11-25-2001).]
Just to close the loop on this saga, have got Dad to/from LAX on the dates we wanted. On the outbound, gave him the choice of W direct or D via YVR, he opted for W (no D available on direct on the date we wanted).
As a side observation - the Aeroplan web award booking facility is great. For Air NZ, I have to do everything over the phone.
No problem at all revising the connecting Air NZ legs - have him in First to/from Auckland. Have never flown First myself, so I'm asking him for a trip report!
Cheers,
NZFlyer
just thought I'd jump in with my recent AC/NZ award booking experience...
am sending my parents on a YVR>NZ holiday (a 50th anniversary bonus prize for all those years of nuturing while resisting the tempation to cut and run!)
Booked in October via SE/AP agent, and we struggled to find AC availability for YVR/HNL for February. Thought I'd be able to avoid the post-Xmas crowds, but was still a real challenge trying to get the dates!
Ended up booking via LAX, and then NZ (1st class). 130K per person.
Actually, I'd really appreciate an update on the AirNZ financials these days; especially since they sandbagged Ansett (according to vociferous Oz folks...) they've been somewhat suspect. Is the prognosis is hopeful? No takeovers looming? ...or SwissAir surprises?
...do tell! [ http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif]
That was very badly worded on my part. AC wouldn't price YYZ-LAX up-front when I posted, but Travelocity quoted $3500 for C YYZ-LAX. So we're on the same track.
Yes, the front cabin is less comfortable to LAX, although to be honest I think it's quite acceptable for a five-hour flight.
My point (and it may not apply to an infrequent flyer) is that it's 60k points to HNL to replace a C$2200 ticket, but 40k points to LAX to replace a C$3500 ticket. I don't know if AKL-LAX costs more than AKL-HNL.
andrew
(and save the story about how AC ran out of 'meal/snacks' on a recent LAX/YYC jaunt! I was offered a fine array of forms to complete).
Now that's more like it!!
"recent LAX/YYC jaunt"
Trans-Alta are you?
A Business award to LAX is only 40000 points and probably costs a bit more (I can't say for sure, I picked two dates at random and C was "available" on every flight, but then the system refused to quote it).
[Travelocity says C$3500 for C]
andrew
[This message has been edited by Andrew Webber (edited 11-25-2001).]
Andrew, just wondering how you got the $3500. Did you went and priced it out? That's even more than the cost of a full J of $3260. I tried price it out on travelocity and it wouldn't even quote me the JRT180, went right up to full J.
I don't know about how AirNZ's J class is like but J to HNL is far more comfortable than YYZ-LAX.
Cheers,
NZFlyer
The kind of fare that I found on AC allows anyone who purchase full Y on that route to be upgraded.
Just to let you all know how the saga turned out, Dad's cool with travelling via LAX instead of HNL, so that's how we'll go (sorry Empress! I know you and Dad would have been great travelling companions!)
Re: Air NZ's viability, it was answered in pretty solid detail earlier in the thread - ie. the NZ govt have effectively re-purchased it (although Singapore Airlines and Brierly Investments still hold a hugely diluted shareholding).
Air NZ got into strife pre- 9/11 through its shareholding in Ansett Australia. Air NZ took a decision a number of years ago that to avoid being marginalised as a domestic carrier, they had to expand to be a regional force by flying in Australia.
The ironic thing - Australia and NZ had an 'open skies' agreement. Air NZ wanted to simply fly their own metal in Australia, serving Aussie domestic routes. When they were about to commence doing this, the Australia govt rescinded the open skies agreement. (Most NZ observers put this down to Qantas pressuring the Aussie govt to protect their turf - its hard to see it being any other way than that).
So, Air NZ was 'forced' to buy Ansett (the number 2 Aussie domestic carrier) in order to compete in Australia. This was basically 'the beginning of the end'. They were never able to make Ansett profitable - the Australian labour agreements were very unfavourable and restrictive.
If there is a negative, in my view, to how Air NZ handled the Australian adventure, it's probably on how they failed to effectively respond to discount carriers in Oz (ie Virgin Blue, Impulse). Qantas simply bought out Impulse and shut them down. Air NZ tried to buy Virgin Blue, but realisticly, Branson is never going to sell that. In other words, Ansett operated too long on the premise that the only competition in Oz was Qantas, while the other domestic discount carriers ate their lunch at the bottom end.
Bottom line? Air NZ is close to the situation they set out to avoid - a strong domestic carrier with limited international coverage.
I'm probably biased, but Air NZ still offers terrific international service - if you get a chance to fly Air NZ transpacific at some point, I'm sure you'll agree. Besides, NZ's one of the few places on earth that a Canadian dollar will go a *long* way!
Where the financial situation has affected Air NZ is in updating inflight entertainment. It's not horrible, but certainly not up to the standards of say, Singapore Airlines. (but it's probably better than Air Canada!)
Thanks again for everyone's input and assistance!
NZFlyer
Top tier Air NZ, you get first crack at award inventory, but no 'guaranteed' availability. No blackout dates per se.
Nothing I'd like better than to be able to route YYZ-AKL as a 'single' Star Alliance award. But right now, that still can't be done. Yes, I can claim AC travel as an award (may yet do that here). But as it stands right now, I'd book an Air NZ award on Air NZ metal as far as HNL or LAX, then have to book an AC award for the 'rest' of the trip.
My only reluctance for doing so is the same reason as your dislike of the YYZ/LAX award - I perceive it to be 'overspending'. Plus, my dad is keen to use the points he has available. (post Sept 11, when Air NZ very nearly went to the wall, I'm also increasingly wary about a points balance creeping too high without being used - what good are lots of points if your carrier bankrupts?).
One of the top-tier perks for Air NZ is to be able to 'gift' awards.
I've suggested to Air NZ that they want to look at a 'Star Alliance' type reward, where a single award can route with multiple SA carriers. This looks to be already occuring on other SA carriers (ANA, LH) and is one of the reasons I'll try to look in on the Star Alliance FT chat in a couple of weeks.
You pay full fare Y and AC will automatically upgrade you to J class.
Several US carriers (ie. CO, NW, US) have been doing this sort of thing on domestic routes for a while now.
A side question should I decide to ring - any better likelihood if we opt for a one-stop routing (ie via YVR?).
Its a bit of a drag, Dad has no elite status with Aeroplan, while I've got top tier with Air NZ (equivalent to AC*SE) - which of course helps me zip in this case. If only Air NZ still flew their own metal to Canada (sigh).
Thanks again, all,
NZFlyer
[This message has been edited by NZFlyer (edited 11-25-2001).]
While this would make for a 12 hour flight (LAX/AKL), I gotta say, there are worse experiences than Air NZ J class. The obvious key here is convincing Dad that a day or two in LA is *just* as good as a day or two in Honolulu (cough).
I'll ring Dad in the am and let everyone know how this turns out...lol. Thanks again for everyone's input.
NZFlyer
The inventory that you see on the website is exactly the same as what you'll get calling Aeroplan. It is pretty hard to get D class (award J) to HNL if you have no status as they only have 1 flight a day and only 25 total J seats available. If you feel better calling in, you can "act" as your dad as I am sure you know all the info that Aeroplan will ask you about him.
Btw, even if you book award travel online, you still have to call Aeroplan to confirm.
They are booked in a capacity-controlled first class inventory (ie. "A" on US) at the same fare as a full Y ticket. For example, a BUF-MCI fare listing on US shows AE141NN at USD$756 r/t.
I don't think it's offered by AA. It's usually offered by the smaller airlines like CO/NW, US, TW, etc. as incentive to lure full fare passengers.
NW used to do it back in 1996, but only if you connected through DTW or MSP, as I recall (shaky memory). If First Class wasn't available, they'd give you extra points.
I don't know if NW still does it, and of course TWA is now AA.
andrew
At any rate (please don't laugh out loud at this) I'm trying to get him ex YYZ around 12 Jan, returning ex HNL around Feb 5.
I appreciate your and other FTer's prompt replies!
Actually I was wrong on the fare, the C fare (CHAWAII) is $2119 CAD before taxes, 7 days advance, 3 days min stay, 30 days max.
If cost is a concern of yours, maybe it's better off buying V ($1104) and paying part of a SE's fare to go along with him. It's cheaper and it benefits both... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Empress, are you volunteering? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif NZFlyer, I think Empress's suggestions are well recommended. Considering paying about $1000 CAD or only $1500 NZD, you can get your dad a RT trip in J between YYZ and HNL is a really good deal.
There is another option that the above posters haven't pointed out yet: Your dad can also fly UA into HNL. Granted, the service and most importantly, the seat won't be as good but chances are UA will have a seat available for your dad but your dates must be flexible though.
Finally, getting an award seat in J on AC to HNL is the most difficult award to book in Aeroplan. Unless you are an AC*SE, your chances of getting a seat within 2 months of your departure date is close to zero.
I've flown AC J LAX/YYZ myself in the past, and yes, it's nothing to scream about, but comfortable enough for a five hour flight.
NZ biz class trans-pacific is really nice, so whether its 8 or 9 hours from HNL to AKL, or 12 from LAX to AKL, there's ample opportunity to enjoy it!
If cost is a concern of yours, maybe it's better off buying V ($1104) and paying part of a SE's fare to go along with him. It's cheaper and it benefits both... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Empress, are you volunteering? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
I don't think I'll ever turn down HNL... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Is it the collective experience that award travel to LA (ie YYZ/LAX) is easier to get than YYZ/HNL?
Definitely... there are 3 nonstop flights a day. Just by looking at your travel dates (Jan 12-Feb 5) on AC's website, there is at least one flight on each day that has award J available. Just to caution you, they use domestic aircrafts (A320, 762) on this route.
NZFlyer, how did you bribe your dad into thinking that spending couple days in LAX is better than HNL? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Anyways, glad it worked out!
the Aeroplan web award booking facility is great.
Ah NZFlyer:
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