碁笥 = ごす? ごけ?
Posted on Jan 08, 2009 under xn--zqqs84h3is.com | editWe are having a fascinating discussion about Kun-yomi and On-yomi over at the Go Forum.
http://www.godiscussions.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3121
We are discussing the Kun-yomi and On-yomi for 碁笥 (the bowls you put your Go stones in). Apparently, the two kanji change yomi when they are used in a compound. Can someone give me an example using both readings?
Also, there is a discussion about irregular compounds. Is 碁笥 an irregular compound?
Is this the word usually used in everyday conversation for Go bowls? (I remember asking someone once, and only getting a blank stare.)
Can you give me an example of both readings for this Kanji? (Supposedly, if it is free-standing, or if it is in a combination, it is pronounced differently.)
Nagato-san!
So 湾（わん） is most common, as in "ishi o wan ni ireru"? How do you pronounce お椀?
Buntaro san,
Sorry I'm not familiar with 碁 so I'm not sure how common the word 碁笥 is.
The word 碁笥 itself is not commonly used - to be honest, I've never seen/heard of this word before myself - so only people who know 碁 well (maybe those who play 囲碁) would know the word, otherwise you'll get a blank stare if you ask people what is 碁笥. :relief:
椀（わん） means bowl, but normally it is the bowl you put food in and eat from.
I don't know if there's any other words for 碁笥, people who don't know the word 碁笥 (like me) would simply describe it something like 碁石を入れるもの、碁石を入れる容器.
I believe 湾 is just a typo, it is also pronounced わん but means bay.
Undrentide-san には珍しくなくても私には珍しい。気づかないだけかも知れないですね。
edit: やっぱり、多いですね。気づかなかった。
@ Buntaro-san
お椀=owan
Im also not familiar with the game. I meant wan or owan are common words in daily conversation used to refer bowls, not bowl for igo. So maybe "goishi wo goke ni ireru" is better.
重箱（じゅうばこ）読み （音＋訓）
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%87%8D%E7%AE%B1%E8%AA%AD%E3%81%BF
例：
勘所（かんどころ） 牛革（ぎゅうかわ） 客間（きゃくま） 激辛（げきから）
業腹（ごうはら） 極細（ごくぼそ） 残高（ざんだか） 生姜湯（しょうがゆ）
職場（しょくば） 食紅（しょくべに） 書棚（しょだな） 総身（そうみ）
粗品（そしな） 地鶏（じどり） 中火（ちゅうび） 吐息（といき）
馬刺（ばさし） 半生（はんなま） 別物（べつもの） 無様（ぶざま）
不仲（ふなか） 毎月（まいつき） 毎年（まいとし） 毎夜（まいよ）
無印（むじるし） 役場（やくば）
湯桶（ゆとう）読み （訓＋音）
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B9%AF%E6%A1%B6%E8%AA%AD%E3%81%BF
例：
合図（あいず）・雨具（あまぐ）・甘党（あまとう）・掛算（かけざん）・消印（けしいん）
敷布（しきふ）・関所（せきしょ）・出番（でばん）・荷物（にもつ）・道順（みちじゅん）
*The above examples are taken from:
http://homepage2.nifty.com/ue_room/information_si.html
ご is the on-yomi for 碁. No two ways about it. Mixing ON and KUN readings in a compound isn't incredibly common, but certainly not rare, especially with words like 碁 and 茶, that often stand on their own.
ごす might be an erroneous reading that emerged from assuming the compound used on-yomi for both characters and perhaps confusion with words like 箪笥 (たんす).
Thanks for the help. It seems 碁笥 is semmon no kotoba. I guess the best way to refer to Go bowls in everyday conversation is 碁石を入れるもの, just like you said. I guess 石入れ sounds goofy, right?
Is ごけ the form commonly used in pronunciation and in written style? Or is there a different word that is usually used to refer to the bowls in everyday conversation?
But for 碁(go) Im not sure whether it's ON or KUN. Go is the common reading, as you can find in 碁石、囲碁, etc. 碁 itself is also used to refer that game. From 碁石, I can assume that go is KUN, but from 囲碁, now I find ON and KUN mixed in one word, otherwise go is both ON and KUN.
Anyways wiki use goke for 碁笥 reading. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A2%81%E7%AC%A5
I hope someone would like to explain this irregularity (or perhaps it's not irregularity, just that we don't know about it).
@ Buntaro
I think you can use 椀（わん） or お椀
Is this the word usually used in everyday conversation for Go bowls? (I remember asking someone once, and only getting a blank stare.)
Can you give me an example of both readings for this Kanji? (Supposedly, if it is free-standing, or if it is in a combination, it is pronounced differently.)
Nagato-san!
So 湾（わん） is most common, as in "ishi o wan ni ireru"? How do you pronounce お椀?
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